νιτροποιητικα βακτηρια. οι γνωστοι μας αγνωστοι...(..και οι εταιριες)

[Γιώργος Κ]

Αρχική Δημοσίευση από κ.ω.σ.τ.α.ς.

Ηπιο στρωσιμο με ψαρια ειναι η απαντισι

Με παραπανω απο 10 ευρα λιγοτερα στη τσεπη μας!

[Γιώργος Κ]

Ψαχνοντας λιγο τη "θεωρια" μου (που οντως σκεφτηκα μονος χωρις να ψαξω πρωτα) νομιζω εχουν καποια βαση οι υποψιες μου μια και αλλοι εχουν εντοπισει την ιδια "ιδεα" που ειχα!

Κοιταξτε εδω: http://www.aquaria.info/index.php?na...&theme=Printer

For years it was believed that the species of bacteria responsible for nitrification were Nitrobacter and Nitrosomonas. It has recently been shown that this is wrong and that Nitrospira is actually responsible. As stated, these bacteria require oxygen to survive. They do not encyst, which is a process some bacteria go through when conditions are unfavorable. The bacteria form sort of a case around themselves and go dormant until the conditions around them are again favorable. This is important to understand as it shows that the bacteria in a bottle products out there are not all they are cracked up to be.

Λεει οτι βακτηρια Nitrospira ειναι υπευθυνα για την νιτροποιηση και οχι τα Nitrobacter and Nitrosomonas οπως νομιζαμε! (Το εχω δει πολλες φορες αλλα θελει πολυ ψαξιμο το θεμα ... που θα γινει σε αλλο θεμα ). Παρολα αυτα τα Nitrospira οπως και τα Nitrobacter και Nitrosomonas δεν δημιουργουν ενδοσπορια πραγμα που σημαινει οτι δεν μπορουν να ζουν σε ενα μπουκαλι!
Δειτε αυτο: http://www.aquatek.gr/vb/showthread.php?t=50753 και συνεχιζουμε:

The heterotrophs have another quality that comes into play in our hobby. If need be, they can actually adapt to process ammonia as a food source. Now, this does not normally occur in anything but extreme conditions, but it does explain how some people report some success with the bacteria in a bottle products. The heterotrophs present may indeed process ammonia initially for a short period, leading the hobbyist to believe nitrifying bacteria have been introduced in large numbers.

Τα ετεροτροφα βακτηρια μπορουν να προσαρμοστουν ωστε να καταναλωνουν αμμωνια. Αυτο εξηγει το λογο που πολλοι αναφερουν οτι λειτουργουν τα "βακτηρια" του μπουκαλιου στο εμποριο. Τα ετεροτροφα βακτηρια μπορουν να επεξεργαστουν την αμμωνια για λιγο οδηγωντας τον χομπιστα στη πεποιθηση (προφανως λανθασμενη ) οτι τα βακτηρια που ειναι υπευθυνα για τη νιτροποιηση (ειτε Nitrospira ειτε Nitrobacter και Nitrosomonas προς το παρον δεν εχει σημασια ) εχουν αναπτυχθει στο φιλτρο μας.

Ερωτηση: ποσοι απο τους φιλους που εχουν χρησιμοποιησει μπουκαλο-βακτηρια εχουν παρατηρησει αμεσως μετα ενα μινι bacterial bloom?
Τυχαιο?

Αν επροκειτο για σπορια απο (ειτε Nitrospira ειτε Nitrobacter και Nitrosomonas προς το παρον δεν εχει σημασια ) απλη αμμωνια χωρις τη παρουσια ψαριων θα τα "ενεργοποιουσε" ξανα ... αλλα ολες οι οδηγιες χρησης (που λενε ΑΥΣΤΗΡΑ εισαγωγη ψαριων) ισως εχει σκοπο να δημιουργηθουν επιπλεον οργανικα στο νερο μας ωστε ενδεχομενως (?) να διατηρηθουν τα ετεροτροφα μπουκαλο-βακτηρια!

Αν ισχυει κατι τετοιο οι εταιριες πωλουν τον ανθρακα για χρυσαφι ... μια που ετεροτροφα βακτηρια μπορουν να βρεθουν ακομα και σε μια σταγονα βροχης (!!!)

[Πάνος]

ενδιαφερουσες ειναι και αυτες οι κριτικες (απο εδω http://www.americanaquariumproducts....gen_Cycle.html ) επανω σε επωνυμα προιοντα... και λεει πανω κατω παρομοια πραγματα. (μιλα για επικολληση στα τοιχωματα, χαμηλη μεταβολικη δραστηριοτητα σε χαμηλες θερμοκρασιες και ετεροτροφα βακτηρια)

There are many products for cycling available too, but most in my experience/tests do not work well with the exception of SeaChem Stability, Fritz Turbo Start, & possible BioSpira.
Properly cared for BioSpira (continuous refrigeration is a must, as well shelf life is still short) or the newer Fritz-Zyme Turbo Start #700 (Freshwater) & #900 (saltwater) can be effective as these are live albeit very fragile Autotrophic bacteria.
The key for these products is proper care, the shelf life is short and both must be stored between 34 F and 40 F. I think The Fritz product is better since it is sold direct with better control of shelf life, refrigeration, and shipping to the end customer.

I will note however that many I know in the aquatic community such as others in aquarium maintenance profession as well as aquatic forums have not had all that good of results in tests with BioSpira, possibly due to poor storage, etc.

Most other products are Heterotrophs are cannot truly cycle an aquarium and are best for spikes in bio loads of established aquariums. Another problem with many cycling products is due to the fact that aerobic nitrifying bacteria cling to media and gravel (this has been PROVEN scientifically) and do not work while suspended in water. Also poor storage and shelf life undoubtedly play a role as well, and proper since storage and handling cannot often be well verified, this explains the often mixed results especially with BioSpira (FritzZyme ships directly, so this may be the better choice of these two products).
It should also be noted that many freshwater products generally cannot be used in saltwater or vice versa.

Liquid Cycle and Stress-Zyme are just preserved bacteria (mostly Heterotrophs) that are more useful for over feeding or other bio over loads in an established aquarium (as aerobic bacteria needed for nitrification do not store well in liquid form at room temperature without oxygen).
Honestly in my tests Cycle or Stress Zyme are really only useful to aid in breakdown of excess wastes from over feeding, poor filtration, etc. (Cycle can also be used as an aid to organic breakdown while waiting for your aquarium Nitrogen Cycle to get started from other means when fish are present). The Heterotrophic Bacteria within these products can aid in the decomposing of excess organic waste however they are basically useless for actually seeding an aquarium and this is a FACT.
Tetra Safe Start is another newer product, that makes many claims, but without any real proof to date (as well previous experience with most of their products over the last 3 decades leaves me with little trust of any product with a Tetra Label). That said, I know a few persons I trust that have used this product (I have not) with poor to fair results (better results than Cycle or StressZyme). These tests were not controlled though, so these are more of an observation.

Another product on the market by a VERY reputable company; SeaChem, is “Stability”.
Although I am a big fan of most SeaChem products, this product has a few claims that do not wash with known facts about nitrifying bacteria. SeaChem claims this to be a synergistic blend of aerobic (including encapsulated oxygen), anaerobic, and facultative bacteria; however facultative bacteria are NOT the primary bacteria of nitrification and are mostly Heterotrophs of which I discussed the differences earlier in the article.

This said, the bacteria found in Stability, albeit not 100% of the primary bacteria of nitrification, this is the closest bottled/non refrigerated product to date that I have found to be a reliably useful product. One major positive of this product over other products such as Stress Zyme or Microbe-Lift (not Microbe-Lift Nite Out which is primarily Autotrophs) that also employ Heterotrophs is that its synergistic blend does not "dump" these into the aquarium thus taking over any true nitrifying Autotrophs that may be present, thus it allows for establishment of your biio filter while it also takes care of immediate and slowly released nitrogenous wastes.

My recommendation as it pertains to Stability is to use it as an aid in cycling of new aquariums or (better) as a boost when the bio load of an aquarium suddenly “jumpsʼ for whatever reason. If any cycling product is to be used in an aquarium, Stability would be the one I would recommend, especially for an aquarium that already has fish and is encountering cycling problems (whether an established aquarium that had a spike in bio load for whatever reason or a new tank that had a set back for whatever reason).

[Raven]

Δηλαδη καταληγουμε σε αυτο που ηδη ξεραμε ;
Οτι δηλαδη, τα μπουκαλακια δεν στρωνουν ενα ενυδρειο αλλα βοηθουν προσωρινα στην μειωση/διασπαση της αμμωνιας οταν υπαρχει ψαρι/ψαρια μεσα σε φρεσκοστημενο ενυδρειο. Κουκουλωνουν το προβλημα αλλα δεν το λυνουν.

[Πάνος]

το ιδο ισυμπερασμα βγαζω κι εγω...
τα δεδομενα βρισκονται παραπανω....ο καθενας μπορει να τα ερμηνευσει ομως λιγο διαφορετικα.

[MakChem]

Biodigest is made up of natural nitrifying, nitrate reducing and facultative
bacterial strains selected for their ability to convert ammonia into nitrites, nitrites into nitrates and nitrates into nitrogen.

Biological filtration quickly gets underway thanks to nitrifying bacteria such as Nitrosomonas europaea and Nitrobacter winogradskyi ...

Aquarium cleaning by waste matter digestion is helped by the presence

of numerous different strains of heterotrophic bacteria present in optimal
proportions such as Paracoccus denitrificans and Pseudomonas stuzeri ...

These bacteria work together with each strain finishing off the work started by the others. Some are capable of biosynthesising nitrate reducing enzymes in aerobic conditions. This enables water to be effectively purified, nitrates and phosphates to be reduced and prevents the spread of filamentous algae.

Αυτά αναφέρει η Prodibio για τις αμπούλες Biodigest.

[Γιώργος Κ]

Δηλαδη επιβεβαιωνει οτι περιεχει ετεροτροφικα βακτηρια!!

Το θεμα ειναι αξιζει να δωσεις χρηματα για κατι που πολυ γρηγορα θα αναπτυχθει στο ενυδρειο σου??

Ειναι ακριβως η μεθοδος στρωσιμο με ψαρια!