Tropheus moorii "ilangi" και άλλα υπό εξαφάνιση

[Κλεόβουλος]

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profile...es.php?id=1895
Το γνωρίζεται αυτό το υπέροχο είδος tropheus?
Ίσως σε λίγα χρόνια το βλέπουμε μόνο σε βίντεο και φωτογραφίες
Πριν απο καιρό ο Ad Konings είχε πει ότι το είδος έχει ήδη εκλείψει στη λίμνη.
Η αλήθεια είναι ότι έχει περιοριστεί δραματικά και αν δεν σταματήσει η τρέλα των αμερικάνων και αυστραλών και τούρκων(!!), κυρίως, χομπιστών να ζητάνε επίμονα άγρια πιασμένα ψάρια (WC), αυτό θα γίνει πραγματικότητα.
Είδα λοιπόν μια έκκληση αμερικάνου εισαγωγέα ψαριών απο την Τανγκανίκα http://www.valleyaquatics.net/ προς χομπίστες, εισαγωγείς και εξαγωγείς, να σταματήσουν να ζητάνε άγρια αυτού του είδους τουλάχιστον για 2 χρόνια, μέχρι ο πληθυσμός τους στην λίμνη να επανακάμψει.
Την μεταφέρω κι εδώ:
"The REAL Tropheus ilangi is near extinction in Lake Tanganyika.

This is what I think can be done to help preserve them.

Enough is enough with the Tropheus Ilangi......theyhavebeenoverfished in thatareato thepoint wherethey don't all come in with the beautiful yellow bodies they once did. I think it's time to stop bringing them in. I hope hobbyists will stop asking for them for a few years so the population can get back to where it should be. I won't be bringing in this species anymore for awhile. I have seen 1000's being collected in the past year and a lot going to Turkey.......the day will come when people won't be able to get them anymore. Please help conserve this Tropheus and don't ask for wilds anymore.

When I was in Africa in 2011 I witnessed first hand over 1000 being collected and shipped out. That was just ridiculous.

Ad Konigs had said a few years back that the tropheus ilangi was extinct in the Lake....thats not true YET. I received some even a few years ago that were beutiful bright yellow bodies like they should be....the ones coming in now are a mix or REAL ilangi and a Chilanga Red that has crossbred with an ilangi.

I'm asking all who read this whether hobbyist, importer or exporter whether in the USA or abroad....please stop asking for these fish. Give them at least 2 yrs to get a healthy population.

I have decided I will be sending out a broad email to all the exporters I know at the Lake to ask them to no longer collect them. Some I have spoken to already have agreed but when money talks I think we all know they can eventually get them.

PLEASE STOP TRYING TO GET THESE FISH WILD!! Their are dealers and breeders here that can provide you with beautiful F1 or tank raised ilangi.

Steve."

[Χρηστος Ζ.]

φαντασου, εισαγωγεας ψαριων να παρακαλαει να μην φερνουν ψαρια που κινδυνευουν. νομιζω αυτο το ειδος το εχει καποιος χομπιστας και εχει κανει παρουσιαση εδω στο φορουμ.

[Κλεόβουλος]

Να σας αναφέρω επίσης ότι από το 2005 μέχρι το 2011
είχε απαγορευτεί, για τον ίδιο λόγο, η περισυλλογή απο την λίμνη tropheus duboisi.

[Παναγιώτης Κ]

Αρχική Δημοσίευση από Κλεόβουλος

Να σας αναφέρω επίσης ότι από το 2005 μέχρι το 2011
είχε απαγορευτεί, για τον ίδιο λόγο, η περισυλλογή απο την λίμνη tropheus duboisi.

Aλήθεια? Και αυτά που βρίσκουμε στα πετ απο που είναι?

[Πάνος]

ενα βιντεο (καπου το εχω ξαναβαλει αλλα δε θυμαμαι που..) με τα ilangi που πραγματικα αναδεικνυει τα χρωματα τους.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vv4Djt8bwp4

[Παναγιώτης Κ]

Αρχική Δημοσίευση από panos-alex/polis

ενα βιντεο (καπου το εχω ξαναβαλει αλλα δε θυμαμαι που..) με τα ilangi που πραγματικα αναδεικνυει τα χρωματα τους.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vv4Djt8bwp4

Αυτός εδώ δεν έχει καθόλου πέτρες. Τα ψάρια όμως τα σπάνε!!!!!

[snakepanos]

Καλα θα κανουν να σταματήσουν να περνουν αγρια,, γιατι ειπαμε οτι μας αρεσει το χόμπι αλλα οχι και να τα εξαφανίσουμε ολα.
Καλα εκανες Κλεοβουλε και το ανεβασες το θεμα.

[Κλεόβουλος]

Να ξαναθυμίσω το θέμα καθώς ενώ πληροφορίες έλεγαν ότι το είδος είχε επανακάμψει αρκετά, τώρα με απόφαση του Εθνικού πάρκου του Nsumbu της Ζάμπια http://www.zambiatourism.com/destina...-national-park απαγορεύεται τελείως η συλλογή οποιουδήποτε ψαριού στην περιοχή (Nkamba bay )μέχρι νεωτέρας.
Ποικιλίες διαφόρων ειδών* και Tropheus που ζουν αποκλειστικά στην περιοχή, όπως τα ilangi, musanga, nkonde, linangu, θα γίνουν πολύ σπάνια στο εμπόριο. Όσοι τα έχουν στην κατοχή τους για έναν ακόμη λόγο πρέπει να φροντίσουν την αναπαραγωγή και τη διάδοση καθαρών ψαριών.

*η περιοχή που καλύπτει το πάρκο είναι αρκετά μεγάλη και κάποια είδη που γνωρίζω πως υπάρχουν αποκλειστικά στην περιοχή είναι τα Altolamprologus compessicepps sp. "shell Sumbu", Julidochromis regani Kachese, Neolamprologus buescheri Kachese και άλλα, σπάνια όμως στο εμπόριο.

[alphonse]

Ενδιαφερουσα θεση απο τον Ad Konings οτι τα ilagni ισως να αποτελουν φυσικο υβριδιο...
"The so-called Ilangi Moorii, found sympatric with the Chilanga variant of T. Sp. red in Kasaba Bay, is sometimes regarded a geographical varient of T. Moorii because of its yellow coloured body, but in DNA analyses it either groups with T sp. red or forms a distinct entity between T. sp. red and T. moorii from the southern populations."


Schupke reports two different fry from a pair of illangi which may indicate that this variant is not an established lineage and that perhaps each individual is the result of a cross.
"All these findings indicate that the Ilangi is not a pure species and may have originated from a natural hybrid between the Chilanga varient of T. Sp red and the Nangu varient of T. Moorii."
Θα τα mixαρουμε κι αυτα στο εργαστηριο....¿
http://www.tolibra.com/test/DyedFish.htm

[saxlina]

Πως παει αραγε αυτο το ειδος;
Το ειδα προχθες σε βιντεο!Απιστευτο!
Εχουν αραγε γινει κινησεις αναλογες με τα saulosi για την αυξηση του ειδους;

[Κλεόβουλος]

ποστ #8

[saxlina]

Ετσι απαγορευση πριν να ειναι ακομη αργα!

[Κλεόβουλος]

Και το Tropheus moorii "Tanzania murago"
http://www.aquatek.gr/vb/showpost.ph...5&postcount=27
μετά την αποκάλυψη του σημείου προέλευσης του στη λίμνη και την στενά κερδοσκοπική πρακτική κάποιων εμπόρων-εξαγωγέων, μόλις 6 χρόνια μετά την ανακάλυψη μιας μικρής αποικίας αυτής της πανέμορφης και μοναδικής ποικιλίας πιστεύεται ότι είναι υπό εξαφάνιση και υπάρχει πιά μόνο σε ενυδρεία χομπιστών
Διαβάστε το άρθρο του Konings http://www.cichlidae.com/section.php?id=279

[Κλεόβουλος]

Ένας ιστοχώρος αφιερωμένος στις κιχλίδες και άλλα ψάρια της λίμνης
που κινδυνεύουν με εξαφάνιση, με στόχο την ανταλλαγή πληροφοριών
και πρωτοβουλίες για τη διάσωση τους
http://www.lake-tanganyika-conservation.com/
Μέχρις στιγμής η λίστα ειδών που απειλούνται είναι:
Tropheus moorii Ilangi,
Tropheus moorii Nkonde,
Tropheus moorii murago Tanzania,
Tropheus sp."Mpimbwe" Korongwe Bay-yellow cheek Korongwe
Tropheus duboisi Maswa Kabogo & Kalago (Karago)
Ophthalmotilapia boops (Nkondwe – Kipili)
Altolamprologus calvus white Chaitika
Altolamprologus calvus gold Nkamba bay
Xenotilapia (Enantiopus) sp. kilesa
Julidochromis regani (Burundi, Bujumbura)

[Κλεόβουλος]

Σύμφωνα με την τελευταία αναφορά του CARES http://www.aquatek.gr/vb/showthread.php?t=61741
τα απειλούμενα είδη κιχλίδων της Μαλάουι

Βαθμολόγηση κινδύνου από IUCN Red List
VU=Vulnerable=Species facing a high risk of extinction in the wild in the medium term future=Είδη που αντιμετωπίζουν μεγάλο κίνδυνο εξαφάνισης στη φύση μεσοπρόθεσμα στο μέλλον
Aulonocara kandeense
Aulonocara maylandi
Lethrinops macrophthalmus
Lethrinops oculatus
Pseudotropheus demasoni

EN=Endangered=Species facing a very high risk of extinction in the wild in the near future=Είδη που αντιμετωπίζουν πολύ μεγάλο κίνδυνο εξαφάνισης στη φύση στο κοντινό μέλλον
Lethrinops macracanthus
Lethrinops micrentodon
Lethrinops microdon
Lethrinops stridae
Oreochromis karongae
Oreochromis lidole
Oreochromis squamipinnis

Βαθμολόγηση κινδύνου από CARES(για τα είδη που δεν έχουν βαθμολογηθεί από την IUCN)
CVU=Vulnerable=Species facing a high risk of extinction in the wild in the medium term future=Είδη που αντιμετωπίζουν μεγάλο κίνδυνο εξαφάνισης στη φύση μεσοπρόθεσμα στο μέλλον
Cyrtocara moorii
Dimidiochromis dimidiatus
Docimodus johnstonii
Lethrinops altus
Mylochromis ensatus
Mylochromis gracilis
Nyassachromis boadzulu
Placidochromis longimanus
Placidochromis phenochilus
Placidochromis sp. 'electra blue'
Placidochromis sp. 'phenochilus tanzania'
Protomelas sp. 'mbenji thick-lip'
Protomelas sp. 'steveni taiwan'
Trematocranus brevirostris

CEN=Endangered=Species facing a very high risk of extinction in the wild in the near future=Είδη που αντιμετωπίζουν πολύ σοβαρό κίνδυνο εξαφάνισης στη φύση στο κοντινό μέλλον
Aulonocara baenschi
Aulonocara guentheri
Aulonocara nyassae
Aulonocara sp. 'lwanda'
Aulonocara sp. 'pyramid'
Champsochromis spilorhynchus
Copadichromis mloto
Copadichromis pleurostigma
Copadichromis pleurostigmoides
Copadichromis sp. 'virginalis gold'
Melanochromis chipokae
Mylochromis lateristriga
Nyassachromis sp. 'mphanga'
Otopharynx selenurus
Otopharynx sp. 'decorus jumbo'
Otopharynx sp. 'golden blueface'
Otopharynx sp. 'silver torpedo'
Otopharynx sp. 'torpedo blue'
Placidochromis sp. 'mbamba'
Pseudotropheus saulosi
Taeniolethrinops sp. ‘furcicauda ntekete’

CEW=Extinct in the Wild=Known only to survive in cultivation, in captivity, or as a naturalized population (or populations) well outside the past range=Εξαφανισμένο στη φύση, διατηρείται μόνο στην αιχμαλωσία
Copadichromis ilesi
Copadichromis sp. 'firecrest mloto'
Mylochromis obtusus
Mylochromis sp. 'torpedo elongate'
Nyassachromis breviceps
Tramitichromis variabilis
Trematocranus labifer

και της Τανγκανίκα

CCR=Critically Endangered = Species facing an extremely high risk of extinction in the wild in the immediate future = Είδη που είναι σε πολύ μεγάλο κίνδυνο εξαφάνισης στη φύση στο πολύ άμεσο μέλλον
Altolamprologus calvus 'yellow' Nkamba Bay
CVU
Cardiopharynx schoutedeni
CCR=Critically Endangered= Species facing an extremely high risk of extinction in the wild in the immediate future= Είδη που αντιμετωπίζουν εξαιρετικά μεγάλο κίνδυνο εξαφάνισης στο πολύ άμεσο μέλλον
Ophthalmotilapia boops
CEW
Tropheus moorii (Ilangi, Kasaba Bay)

Με μπλε μερικά είδη που συναντάμε σε ενυδρεία στη χώρα μας και πρέπει οι ευσυνείδητοι χομπίστες να κάνουμε προσπάθεια να τα διατηρήσουμε καθαρά και να τα διαδώσουμε σε άλλους ώστε να συμβάλλουμε κι εμείς στη διάσωση αυτών των ειδών έστω στα ενυδρεία μας. Και βέβαια είναι πολύ σημαντικό να μην παραγγέλνουμε και να αποτρέπουμε και άλλους να αγοράζουν άγρια πιασμένα ψάρια τουλάχιστον από τα προαναφερόμενα είδη.

[Κλεόβουλος]

Μετά την προσπάθεια που έχει ξεκινήσει εδώ και καιρό για την διάσωση, αναπαραγωγή και επανένταξη στη λίμνη Malawi ειδών που απειλούνται με εξαφάνιση, όπως του Pseudotropheus saulosi, http://www.aquatek.gr/vb/showthread.php?t=61917
κάτι αντίστοιχο ξεκινάει και στην Τανγκανίκα.
Ο Chris και η Louise Horsfall ιδιοκτήτες του Lakeshore Lodge στο Kipili της Τανζανίας http://lakeshoretz.com/ αποφάσισαν να κατασκευάσουν εννιά μεγάλες δεξαμενές, που θα λειτουργούν με ηλιακά πάνελ, για την αναπαραγωγή και επανένταξη στη λίμνη ειδών που απειλούνται σοβαρά όπως τα Tropheus duboisi "Maswa" και τα Tropheus moorii "Tanzania Murago".

Στην παρουσίαση του σχεδίου τους σ' ένα συνέδριο για τις λίμνες, που έγινε τον Φεβρουάριο στη Kigoma, ο κυβερνητικός εκπρόσωπος της Τανζανίας για την Αλιεία, έκανε δήλωση ότι τα προαναφερθέντα είδη αλλά και τα Ophthalmotilapia boops "Blue Neon" και Petrochromis sp. "red" που βρίσκονται επίσης υπό απειλή εξαφάνισης, απαγορεύεται να εξάγονται.
Αν και ο έλεγχος των παράνομων εξαγωγών είναι πολύ δύσκολος σ' αυτή τη χώρα, ας ελπίσουμε ότι θα υπάρχει κάποιο αποτέλεσμα και απ' αυτό.

[Κλεόβουλος]

Μια σειρά άρθρων με τίτλο "Endangered cichlids of Lake Tanganyika" άρχισε να γράφει ο Ad Konings στο fb.
Το πρώτο :

Maswa Duboisi
The cichlid at most risk of extinction is the so-called Maswa Duboisi. This particular form was discovered about 40 years ago by Pierre Brichard near a place known from old maps as Maswa. It is the name of an old fortress, later monastery, located on the shore south of the Malagarasi Delta, though nothing of it now remains. Since its introduction into the hobby late 1950s, Tropheus duboisi has always been an extremely popular cichlid mainly because of it polka-dotted juveniles. The species is very old, estimated at about 2 million years, and seems less capable of holding territory in the prime rocky habitat as other members of the genus. We therefore find only a few relict populations of this species in the northern half of the lake. By extracting major numbers of this species from such surviving populations, we likely push this cichlid quickly to extinction. This has nearly happened with the Maswa Duboisi which used to live at a few select places around Cape Kabogo. The initially discovered population was virtually wiped out by the end of the previous century and after I found another population near Halembe also that population is nearly gone. T. duboisi is very slowly regenerating species that usually spawns just two times a year when it produces on average nine young. The challenges juvenile cichlids face in the lake are such that almost none of these juveniles make it to maturity. The adults are already challenged by the presence of more successful members of the genus, so that over-collecting this species is a lose lose situation.
There is absolutely no need to extract this species from the wild as it is bred in quantities far greater than can be found in the lake. So, to completely stop collecting the Maswa variant of T. duboisi is a no-brainer.

και μια επισήμανση του :

A quote from Ad Konings
"I would like to clarify some of the misconceptions readers may have about over-fishing and extinction. Some believe that when not the last individual of a certain species/population has been fished out of the lake, there is still hope that the species may recover. Of course it is true that it is almost impossible to catch the very last individual of a species/population when the ornamental fish collectors are extracting fish from the lake, BUT you don’t need to catch the very last to exterminate a species. Every species has a critical minimum population density and below that, it is gone forever. With so many species competing for the same piece of real estate in the lake it is easy to see that each species needs a certain density to hold on to their share. In particular T. duboisi, who shares everywhere the habitat with a more successful congeneric, critical density is likely much higher than β€œthe last individual”.
Another misconception has been raised by those who believe that exporters manage their collection quotas by not extracting a certain species/population when they notice the numbers are dwindling. Chris knows of at least nine (!) different teams that extract cichlids from the lake. Even if there was one that would refrain from collecting a certain species/population, the other eight teams won’t! Believe me, there is NOBODY who would not collect a fish so that it can recover. As long as we want to buy a certain species/form from an exporter, there will be extractors trying to get it, even just a single individual. The local fishermen continue to catch till EVERY fish is gone. There is no alternative for these people. Some studies have been done in Africa’s lakes towards the sustainability of fisheries, words have been spoken, and laws have been made by the country’s fisheries departments, but on the ground it is a free for all with very little measure of control. They even prevent recruitment of young fish by also collecting these with mosquito nets in the very shallow water. Dream on if you think African catchers are β€œmanaging their quotas”. Regarding ornamental fish it is OUR demand that drives certain species into extinction; WE have to regulate collections, not the workers in Africa. There are about 200 cichlid species and variants that are or have been exported from the lake; all we ask is to refrain from buying a few of these, less than 3%.
There was a question about the validity of information given on this page because if it was only me saying so it was not acceptable. I wonder whom we should ask about the cichlids in the lake, somebody who has been traveling, observing, and publishing about these fish in the lake for the last 30 years, scientists who have made detailed studies of particular populations, concerned citizen of Tanzania who actually live on the shores of the lake, OR an importer of these fish in the United States who perhaps has never seen a cichlid in its natural habitat? To answer the question about how often Tropheus species breed please read the study by Yanagisawa & Sato (1990) who found in their study area that T. duboisi mouthbroods for about 31 days and females recuperate for about 76 days before they spawn again. For T. moorii/T. sp. ‘black’ the interval is even much longer. It is possible that in the aquarium, where fish get fed twice a day and there are no predators, T. duboisi may spawn perhaps 4 times a year, but in their natural habitat things are a little more competitive. Also during the rainy season hardly any cichlid species breeds because of poor visibility. So, in the wild a Tropheus female spawns on average 2-3 times a year. Therefore catching 50% of a population in a single year is NOT sustainable for Tropheus."

[Κλεόβουλος]

Αντιγράφω και μεταφέρω από το Cyphos.com
μια ενδιαφέρουσα συνέντευξη του Laif DeMason (http://www.aquatek.gr/vb/showthread.php?t=86330)
που αντιμετωπίζει το θέμα από μια δική του οπτική (και μ' ένα ελπιδοφόρο υστερόγραφο )

The Big Picture – Often as happens, individuals and hobbyists alike get their information from the internet and in a piecemeal fashion that doesn’t allow the reader to see the big picture on how everything fits together and really works. I know there is a lot of controversy recently in forums about certain Tanganyika aquarium fish. Any information given may not be exactly correct and there is no way for the reader to actually know what is happening and why it doesn’t seem correct.

First of all, ornamental fish in both Lakes Malawi and Tanganyika are caught manually by divers with a basic hand netting technique. It is not mechanized nor done by chemicals. So it is virtually impossible to catch every last fish even after many years of catching. The divers usually go to areas where catching certain fishes exist in good numbers and actually can be caught given the technique and underwater terrain. Many areas do not have enough of any type of fish needed without spending all day to catch a handful. This is not cost effective given the distances and the price of fuel and equipment in remote locations! Other times the rocky reefs where the fish are caught are just too problematic with current or non-uniform rocks sizes. So divers pick the best spots to collect and ignore other areas where the same fish exist that are usually nearby. Other times these cichlids get used to divers and learn to elude their hand nets. When the pickings get too very difficult and certain fish are just not around, then the divers come back empty handed and the exporter doesn’t bother to go back time and time again wasting money for nothing. I’ve been to the both lakes diving a dozen times and with over one hundred hours of diving, I am still terrible at catching these fish with their nets. Have you ever tried to catch a fish in open lake water with a hand net? Not so easy! The fish easily eludes the catcher. Yes these African divers use a 30 ft x 4 ft barrier net to slow the fish down enough to snag them, but that is only for a tiny portion of real estate in a 400 mile long lake! The only way these cichlid catchers actually succeed is the fact that there are so many individuals in the local area population that they just can’t miss!

Second, there has been a considerable amount of study on fish populations and dynamics. Population models are well known to fisheries scientists. All fishes, whether harvested for food, reduction, or ornamental reasons have population dynamics well documented with population models with mathematical equations. That is how fisheries institutions can predict how many harvestable fish there are in a given area without over harvesting and thus destroying the fish populations. A big topic in today’s world: over harvesting. So fisheries scientists are able to suggest measures to put in place, like fish size limits, bag (or catch) limits, or seasonality thus managing the fish population for sustainable yields. Ornamental fish are no different in these respects than food fish. There is a harvestable limit for all wild fishes and is practiced in Brazil and other place for fish like cardinal tetras. The local catchers do not want to end their seasonal livelihood by over harvesting. Take what is manageable and leave the population stable for the next year. In the same way this principle of over harvesting unchecked will reduce the population of the fish so low that manual catching is impossible in practical way. If the African cichlid catchers over harvest any fish in one area, not only do the same cichlid species spread into these areas over time from neighboring crowded areas, but the divers cross off the fish from their possible catch list for that small areas and do not come back for months and years because it is a waste of their time. Cichlid divers only usually collect to a
depth of about 60 feet, leaving any fishes untouched below this depth. Slowly the fish move into areas that were harvested since there is little competition in these fresh areas for their niche. In other words, there is then little to no competition for this fish in newly harvested areas for space or food. So the population will eventually come back with time and lack of catching because of low yields. This is again because no group of divers with hand nets can catch ALL of any one species in any particular area of any one species of cichlid. There are plenty of examples of this in both Lake Malawi and Lake Tanganyika. One example is Altolamprolous yellow calvus. Discovered and collected since the early 1990’s, supplying hobbyists worldwide for over 15 years. Eventually by about 6 or 7 years ago the relatively restricted population area near Nsumbu Zambia could only yield a handful of brownish individual fish at any given time. I thought the fish was gone for sure. However, since there were no yellow calvus, no one bothered to collect there for nearly five years and when teams of Zambian divers came to collect other fish nearby, they discovered the population had re-bounded in a big way. There were then hundreds of yellow calvus near Nsumbu again! What is in play here is simply fish population dynamics and the practicality of hand collecting African cichlids. Divers cannot ever collect all of any kind of one fish and once the collecting pressure is reduced, the population can rebound from those fish that elude the hand nets.

Third, the demand for African cichlids by hobbyists is not limitless. The demand is not like the demand for gasoline or food where all mankind buys these hobby fishes. What is popular now, will be unwanted in five years. What was popular five years ago, no one wants now. What keeps African cichlids of interest to hobbyists is that there are so many different groups of species! Dozens of species in dozens of sub family groups gain and lose popularity of time. This is perfect for wild populations as the fad fades, so does the collecting pressure by divers. And what about sources of purchased cichlids? Not all cichlids sold to hobbyists are wild. In fact 90% of all tropical fish sold world wide are from bred sources (thus 10% being wild) and 90% of all wild caught tropical fish sold worldwide are marine fish. So most cichlids sold world wide are also from bred sources. In fact there are dozens of fish farms in the Far East breeding African cichlids and dozens of farms in south Florida breeding African cichlids as well as dozens of commercial breeders elsewhere in Europe breeding the same. If there were no bred African cichlids from commercial sources, there would certainly be a several fold increase in wild collections. But in fact there is not because bred fishes are cheaper and in better health. A prefect example of this is the Pseudotropheus demasoni. Thousands of these fish are bred world wide each month. If the same number were collected annually, the Ps. demasoni would surely be difficult to find on tiny Pombo Reef in Tanzania. But you can still go there and easily find this fish twenty years after its discovery. Why? Because bred fish has replaced the need for wild caught fish in this case. One thing I do know is the best way to relieve collecting pressure on any fish species is to breed that fish! One thing to increase collecting pressure is to say a cichlid is a new and rare fish and no one else has them! That will cause an instant increase in demand! The solution, breed that fish for future sales.

Some people have criticized me for importing the so-called Tanzanian Murago Tropheus recently. I can tell you I imported them twice, 12 fish and then five months later 15 fish.
Why? First to put them in the hands of capable breeders, but also I believe it is the best way to reduce the collecting pressure on this fish. I think 28 fish is a prudent harvestable number for this fish given it’s population size. Further I have never asked any collector or exporter in Africa to collect this fish for me since their appearance in Konings Tropheus book. If a Tanzanian exporter has this newly discovered fish on his availability list, my choices are then simple, not buy the fish and if the exporter cannot sell them to anyone else, they would then be disposed of unceremoniously out the back door of their fish house to die struggling in the dirt. These exporters are hundreds of miles away from Lake Tanganyika so any unsold items are never returned to their natural location. It is not practical and probably best for the ecology of the lake. Or otherwise my choice is to buy this fish and breed it. A much better choice given the circumstances.

Fourth, there are other things to consider for a better sense of what is really happening. U.S. and European hobbyists are NOT the biggest buyers of wild caught African cichlids, the Far East hobbyists are, especially China! What we do or do not buy here will make no difference to what hobbyists do in China. Also Tanzanians should be in charge of how they use their own natural resources. We as outsiders can only suggest and enlighten, but they will do as they see fit. How can we criticize other countries for not doing enough to maintain and preserve their resources when we ourselves have made such a big mess in our own land? Further, no cichlid importer anywhere is “getting rich” from importing “rare” cichlids. It is just not happening. Even the rarest African cichlid does not have the price or the overall appeal for anyone to make millions. Cichlids are not like ivory and diamonds, there is no unlimited demand. As they say, “How do you make a small fortune in tropical fish? Start with a BIG fortune!” You can make a living off tropical fish, but not a fortune. The work is just too difficult and demand too small. Any private cichlid breeder can tell you that.

Lastly, the idea that collecting any tropical fish can lead to its extinction has just not been shown historically. What DOES lead to tropical fish (or any other organism) extinction is HABITAT DESTRUCTION! Sadly, there are plenty of examples of this. We all know about the devastation and extinction of a couple of hundred species of Lake Victorian cichlids. This was essentially caused by habitat destruction. Not by ornamental fish collections! Wouldn’t it have been nice if there were some ornamental fish collectors on site before the collapse of the haplochromine population there? Then many of these extinct fishes could still be bred and kept. Sadly, this is not the case and still no chance to make Lake Victoria back to its original pristine condition. What about the other rift lakes? A couple of years back Mireille Schreyen wrote an article in Cichlid News magazine about the alarming loss of fish populations along the Burundi coast of Lake Tanganyika. She attributes losses due to human over population along the coast and habitat destruction. Several fish populations that occur on limited habitats there were drastically reduced over the last 15 years. This was not by ornamental fish collecting but the need to eat by locals. Is anyone sounding the alarm for those fishes? Not hardly… As far as I know the Tanzanian Director of Fisheries has declared that four cichlids not be exported, although none of the current cichlid exporters with permits even know about this ruling. The four are: Maswa duboisi, Red Bulu Petrochromis, Op. boops, and the Tanzanian Murago. Some of these fish were sold in big numbers in the past. Curiously
Op. boops occur in several places but the ones found near Nkondwe Island are said to have limited numbers now. There are other varieties of Op. boops that do not show the neon blue streak mid-body. Not a problem with those locations apparently. However, Tanzanian collectors have told me they can catch several boxes of Op. boops neon streak with no problems leading me to believe their collection point is NOT Nkondwe Island since it would not be practical to catch so many there. So likely there is yet another large population of identical Op. boops neon streak somewhere nearby.

For the casual cichlid forum reader, this information hopefully fills in the gaps for background information to judge how likely written words in other forums actually ring true. Most often than not, only a one-sided view is presented to persuade the reader. In high school I had a teacher (Mr. Carrigan) who always said, “I only believe in what I see myself, and none of what I hear, and only half of what I read”. A good lesson for the internet today. People can actually write whatever they want even if it is not true.

L. DeMason

PS: Good news from Ad Konings just back from Tanzania. He states while the Tanzanian Murago Tropheus population has been reduced, there are still many wild individuals there, enough to still organize a captive breeding effort. Just like I thought there would be.

[Κλεόβουλος]

Μάλλον δεν είμαι μόνο εγώ που αποτρέπω από την παραγγελία και αγορά άγριων F0 ψαριών και ειδικά ειδών που απειλούνται με εξαφάνιση.
Διαβάστε τις καταγγελίες του Thomas Morschel, ιδιοκτήτη ενός από τα πιο αξιόπιστα στην Ευρώπη καταστήματος εισαγωγής και πώλησης κιχλίδων της Τανγκανίκα,της "Airfish Cichlids" http://www.airfish.de/
(μεταξύ άλλων κατονομάζει και τους απατεώνες, αναξιόπιστους και εγκληματικά απαίδευτους εξαγωγείς από Τανζανία και Ζάμπια)
https://www.facebook.com/Airfish-Cic...653/?pnref=lhc

[tsantos]

αααααααααααααχ!!!
Κανονισε να με διαγραψουν και απο αυτο το forum Κλεοβουλε
και μεχρι το 2018 τι θα κανω???
Να ανοιξουν τα αυτια τους καποιοι και τα ματια τους πολυ καλα
και να αφησουν τις εισαγωγες F0 FW WRC και αλλες τετοιες αηδιες.
Βοηθηστε ολοι οσοι αγαπαμε τη λιμνη η την καθε λιμνη να παιρνουμε ψαρια μονο αναπαραγωγης!!!

[pas4]

Κλεόβουλε, είχα διαβάσει και εγώ την ανάρτηση της συγκεκριμένης φάρμας. Τυχαίνει όπως ξέρεις να έχω και εγώ ψάρια από τη συγκεκριμένη φάρμα. Συμφωνώ ότι πρέπει να προστατεύεται το οικοσύστημα, συμφωνώ στο να σταματήσει η αθρόα αιχμαλωσία ψαριών...από όλο τον κόσμο, αλλά και γενικότερα των ζωντανών οργανισμών. Βέβαια για να έχουμε τα ψάρια αναπαραγωγής σίγουρα κάποια στιγμή οι απόγονοί τους ήταν από κάποια λίμνη του κόσμου. Βέβαια τότε ήταν και σε αφθονία... και δε σημαίνει ότι πρέπει να συνεχίζεται αυτό ανεξέλεγκτα και συνέχεια. Σε πολύ μεγαλύτερο βαθμό, βλέπω και σε όλο τον κόσμο αλλά και ιδιαίτερα στην πατρίδα μας την αιχμαλωσία άγριων πουλιών. Κάθε χώρα φαίνεται ότι είτε έχει τους δικούς της νόμους είτε και κοινούς με άλλα κράτη είναι το ίδιο και το αυτό...καταπάτηση του οικοσυστήματος για το κέρδος. Βλέπω καθημερινά όλες της αναρτήσεις από τη συγκεκριμένη καταγγελία της Airfish και ακόμη όμως προσπαθώ να καταλάβω αν όλο αυτό γίνεται επίτηδες... γιατί δηλαδή είναι μια από της πολύ γνωστές φάρμες που κάνει εισαγωγές άγριων ψαριών από την Tanganyika εδώ και πάρα πολλά χρόνια...τι έγινε τώρα και εκθέτει τους προμηθευτές τις; Μήπως παίζονται άλλα παιχνίδια από πίσω; Τόσα χρόνια δεν ήξερε αν γινόταν αυτό... ή είχε κέρδος και δε μιλούσε; Επίσης με τα τόσα είδη που πέρασαν από τη φάρμα τους θα μπορούσαν να τα εκτρέφουν όλα...(όχι ότι δε το κάνουν με κάποια) και όχι να πουλάνε άγρια... μήπως τα άγρια επομένως τους φέρνουν περισσότερο κέρδος; Δε σημαίνει πως έχω δίκιο...απλά νομίζω πως είναι εύλογες ερωτήσεις...

[saxlina]

Τροφή για σκέψη λοιπόν...
Εμπόριο είναι σίγουρα δεν είναι όλα τίμια και όπως φαίνονται...

[Κλεόβουλος]

Πασχάλη εύλογες φυσικά οι απορίες σου.
Προσωπικά δεν μ' ενδιαφέρουν τα κίνητρα του κάθε εμπόρου αλλά
η ανάδειξη του υπαρκτού πραγματικού προβλήματος
δηλ. της επικείμενης εξαφάνισης ή των σοβαρών κινδύνων για μια σειρά είδη
εξαιτίας και (και άλλων λόγων βέβαια) της δικής μας συμπεριφοράς, των χομπιστών.

[pas4]

Αρχική Δημοσίευση από Κλεόβουλος

Πασχάλη εύλογες φυσικά οι απορίες σου.
Προσωπικά δεν μ' ενδιαφέρουν τα κίνητρα του κάθε εμπόρου αλλά
η ανάδειξη του υπαρκτού πραγματικού προβλήματος
δηλ. της επικείμενης εξαφάνισης ή των σοβαρών κινδύνων για μια σειρά είδη
εξαιτίας και (και άλλων λόγων βέβαια) της δικής μας συμπεριφοράς, των χομπιστών.

Θα συμφωνήσω... και να προσθέσω μια και αναφερόμαστε στη δική μας συμπεριφορά, θα πρέπει και εμείς οι χομπίστες να έχουμε και οικολογική συνείδηση. Όπως ξέρεις το θέμα με τα άγρια προκύπτει στο 100% μόνο για την Tanganyika (μιλώντας για την Ελλάδα πάντα). Αλλά είμαστε πάρα πολύ πίσω στο χόμπι, όχι τόσο του ενυδρείου, αλλά ίσως στο θέμα κιχλίδες Αφρικής. Πριν βάλουμε κάποια ψάρια στο ενυδρείο μας θα πρέπει να ρωτάμε...αλλά προπάντων να διαβάζουμε! Να ξέρουμε αν τα λίτρα που έχουμε μπορούμε να φιλοξενήσουν τέτοια ψάρια και ποιο ταιριάζει με τι. Πρέπει να καταλάβουμε ότι τα 120 λίτρα (που μας άφησε η γυναίκα μας να βάλουμε στο σπίτι...γιατί τόσο χωράει) δεν κάνουν για κιχλίδες malawi, παρά μόνο για μεγάλωμα μικρών ψαριών! Πρέπει να καταλάβουμε τι θα πει υβρίδιο και ποιες οι συνέπειές του.... πρέπει να καταλάβουμε τα αποτελέσματα της συνεχόμενης ''ενδογαμίας''. Όλοι κάναμε κάποια στιγμή λάθη με την ενασχόληση μας με τα συγκεκριμένα ψάρια... απλά πρέπει να μαθαίνουμε και να βελτιωνόμαστε.... γιατί πιστεύω πως το συγκεκριμένο χόμπι στην Ελλάδα είναι πολύ πίσω. Πολλά είπα φθάνει ας προβληματιστούμε όλοι μας

[Κλεόβουλος]

Ένα site για όσους θέλουν να παρακολουθούν το θέμα
http://www.conservation-tropheus.com/