Monaco aquariums - Greek Aquarist's Boards - Φόρουμ συζητήσεων γιά το χόμπυ του Ενυδρείου

Tolis · #1 11-12-02, 03:14

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Title: Monaco Aquariums

Post by: Tolis on 11/26/01 at 11:46:15
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This is a topic that started in Tom's Place (our host discussion boards and aquatic site), but, after browsing polleni's site today, and reading zincfree's articles about the Syros public aquarium, I thought I would tranfer the topic here as well.
It is about a concept of Mr. Jacques Garnaud, director of the Monaco Oceanographic Museum after WWII, (just before Cptn Cousteau), and &quot;inventor&quot; of the angled sides principle.
His plans are uploaded here: http://users.otenet.gr/~tolibra/Monaco.htm

I paste here the basics:

&quot;Magic&quot; angle: &nbsp;We all know that glass refracts light, right (just as does the air-water interface)? &nbsp;The 44 degrees that you see several times on the plans is the &quot;critical angle&quot; for the glass-water interface. &nbsp;A side wall going back at 44 degrees from the front (viewing plane) cannot be seen through the viewing glass inside the tank, no matter what the length of that wall. &nbsp;On the plans, the plan C &nbsp;tank, bottom right, the right-hand wall is entirely invisible to the viewer, no matter how close to the glass or where in front of the tank they stand. &nbsp;Ditto both the right and left sides of the A &amp; B tanks. &nbsp;The left-hand wall of the C tank is entirely visible, but receding at a sharp angle from the viewer, almost certainly magnifying the illusion of depth, and because the walls diverge, they will not appear to be a tunnel.
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;On the upper, Horizontal Plan view, the base of the tank is recessed below the view window, and with solid (opaque) walls at the side and below and above, the view is essentially a porthole poised in space inside the tank in appearance, since the floor-front wall junction is &nbsp;out of sight as well. &nbsp;The floor of the tank is sloped upward away from the front toward the rear. &nbsp;If you have any &quot;deep&quot; (front to back) tanks with thin level gravel or bare bottoms, you may have noticed this illusion already - flat gravel in a deep tank appears to slope up toward the back. &nbsp;When we (try) to slope our gravel like this, we actually heighten the illusion of depth - basic perspective distortion for our own purposes. &nbsp;This effect is also used in theaters using raked or sloped stages to increase apparent depth. &nbsp;The low but protruding &nbsp; rockwork in the foreground magnifies this as well.
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;We are conditioned by free-standing tanks on solid-appering stands to be impressed when we see a 6-foot or bigger tank across the room. &nbsp;But when we approach the tank we cannot see it all at once - critical angle again, even if not masked by solid walls - our eyes are only so far apart, so our structural limitation restricts our field of view.
&nbsp;Monaco-style tanks may not look nearly as large as they are at first glance, because they intentionally limit the field of view from a distance, to magnify the apparent interior space of the tank when you are standing in front of it. &nbsp;The tank in the middle of the posted page, the Ground Plan, shows the opaque walls at the sides encroaching on the tank front glass (I don't know the scale, but unless very large, I'd encroach more. &nbsp;This would allow fish to swim just out of view, turn and return to view with being visible during the act of turning). &nbsp;All this provides a literal window on nature, making it seem that you have been placed within their world, rather than their being captive in a glass box sitting against the wall of your world.
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Note: for maintenance purposes, the side walls can be clear, they are invisible from the view area. &nbsp;The rears walls are best obscured or &nbsp;opaque.
&nbsp; Old but elegant touch: &nbsp;On the cross-section (horizontal plan) at the top, not the &quot;gutter&quot; at the base of the slope. &nbsp;Debris, poop, etc. will tend to gather here where it can either be vacuumed or drained out easily.

The whole discussion can be found here: http://boards.aaquaria.com/topic.cgi...p;amp;topic=64

I thought zincfree will find this interesting, although I am afraid the construction is already done. I just contacted the Museum's library and ordered his original publication:
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Construction de l'aquarium public. Plans, directives et commentaires / J. Garnaud. - 1977. - 39 p., 10 fig.
I will be happy to photocopy it and help translate it from french for Adreas.
This principle can also be adapted in smaller scale for home tanks.

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Title: Re: Monaco Aquariums

Post by: zincfree on 11/28/01 at 09:36:13
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It is a very interesting piece of info Tolis. We may built our tanks according to this plans, you know.
I personaly thank you for this.

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Title: Re: Monaco Aquariums

Post by: Tolis on 11/30/01 at 20:06:57
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Today I received the &quot;Construction de l'aquarium public. Plans, directives et commentaires / J. Garnaud. - 1977. - 39 p., 10 fig. ISBN 2-7260-0005-3&quot; booklet from the Monaco Oceanographic Museum. Plans uploaded at: http://users.otenet.gr/~tolibra/Monaco2.htm

To be continued

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Title: Re: Monaco Aquariums

Post by: polleni on 12/05/01 at 16:27:40
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Really interesting information. And the diagrams say it all. I wonder what kind of tank you will have to build.. It seems like the tank is double the size of the viewing window. Very impressive indeed !!

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Title: Re: Monaco Aquariums

Post by: Tolis on 12/05/01 at 17:48:05
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The top middle drawing of Takis in the last (bottom) diagram here: http://users.otenet.gr/~tolibra/Monaco.htm has dimensions that I think are fair for a home glass tank.
I know that it sounds strange and unappealing to have say only 70cm of front glass for a tank that big, but I think the effect achieved makes it worth. I was at Markos shop some days ago, and their reef tank is an hexagon. I was looking thru the narrow angled side in the tank, and the illusion of depth was fantastic.
And of course, when we talk about bigger, concrete tanks with the front glass on a wall and the rest of the tank behind it, the illusion is much bigger...

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Title: Re: Monaco Aquariums

Post by: Takis on 12/05/01 at 19:14:53
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Νομίζω ότι ένα τέτοιο ενυδρείο με αρκετά μεγάλο μέγεθος είναι ουσιαστικά κατάλληλο μόνο για να γίνει σε ένα σπίτι όπου θα έχει προβλεφθεί η θέση του. Και βέβαια το ιδανικό είναι αυτό που λέει ο Τόλης, δηλαδή να είναι ορατό μόνο το μπροστά τζάμι. Αυτό σημαίνει ένα μικρό δωμάτιο από την πίσω πλευρά για το ενυδρείο και τον εξοπλισμό του!!!
Ίσως να το φτιάξει ο polleni στο γνωστό μελλοντικό του σχέδιο!!!! Για τα σπίτια μας νομίζω ότι είναι υπερβολή. Αν αποφάσιζα να φτιάξω κάτι τόσο μεγάλο στο σπίτι, θα το προτιμούσα με τον κλασσικό τρόπο!

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Title: Re: Monaco Aquariums

Post by: Tolis on 12/05/01 at 20:07:54
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Τακη το μεσαιο απανω ενυδρειο (70εκ. μπροστα, 172 πισω 50εκ βαθος, 50εκ υψος) βγαινει περιπου 300 λιτρα...δεν νομιζω οτι ειναι κατι που δεν θα μπορουσε κανεις να το βαλει σπιτι του. Το μονο προβλημα που βλεπω, ειναι οτι αν το ολο συστημα, ακομα και ντυμενο (βλεπε http://users.otenet.gr/~tolibra/monacosimple.jpg &nbsp;-συγνωμη για το απαισιο γραφικο) , εχει εξωτερικα &quot;ορια&quot; που φαινονται σε καποιον που ειναι στον ιδιο χωρο, τοτε το εφφε χαλαει λιγο...

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